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Author Topic:  Clone or not to clone  (Read 13787 times)

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Offline Pappa Smurf

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Re: Clone or not to clone
« Reply #225 on: September 17, 2019, 05:50:17 PM »
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Hey nitro
You bought (stole as in low balled) a CY27 marine motor from me. A Zenoah clone correct  thumbsup  so what is your problem with clones  *rofl* 1lma00!  !woohoo!
No I didnít low ball you but that doesnít mean I wouldnít
And I donít have a problem with clone motors
Itís just that the ones Iíve had the quality was not as good in them
And Iím just as tight with my money as anyone
But they are not worth the extra effort to fix them
Iíd rather just pay a little more and get it right the first time
Iím a big BZM fan and I tried the Cz and they are both very High strung motors and they both have their problems but the BZM has less of them
As for cars Iím still running two of the first production run cars the first 50 sent to the USA and one of the third batch when they changed the manufacture the first time
The third car is the best fit and finish of my cars
Iím thinking of running this race next year just depends on my grandson heís 4 and a Little hardheaded donít know where he gets that from visitors can't see pics , please You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login or You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login


Cloning a motor is ok but not a car *thumbsdown* ^screwy*
Grumpy old carnt
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2 x gas monos
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Offline Pappa Smurf

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Re: Clone or not to clone
« Reply #226 on: September 17, 2019, 06:36:57 PM »
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Hey nitro
You bought (stole as in low balled) a CY27 marine motor from me. A Zenoah clone correct  thumbsup  so what is your problem with clones  *rofl* 1lma00!  !woohoo!
No I didnít low ball you but that doesnít mean I wouldnít
And I donít have a problem with clone motors
Itís just that the ones Iíve had the quality was not as good in them
And Iím just as tight with my money as anyone
But they are not worth the extra effort to fix them
Iíd rather just pay a little more and get it right the first time
Iím a big BZM fan and I tried the Cz and they are both very High strung motors and they both have their problems but the BZM has less of them
As for cars Iím still running two of the first production run cars the first 50 sent to the USA and one of the third batch when they changed the manufacture the first time
The third car is the best fit and finish of my cars
Iím thinking of running this race next year just depends on my grandson heís 4 and a Little hardheaded donít know where he gets that from visitors can't see pics , please You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login or You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login


Cloning a motor is ok but not a car *thumbsdown* ^screwy* double standards  dontknow
Grumpy old carnt
1 x Rovan 5b and loving it
2 x gas monos
1 HPI 5b
1 MCD
2 Losi 5iveT
Happy user of Micks Mods motors

5 assorted Aeros
Red Lion Rebel
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Offline nitrocat

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Re: Clone or not to clone
« Reply #227 on: September 17, 2019, 08:56:28 PM »
I bought 1 cz motor and wonít do that again
And Iíve bought two clones 1 King motors and 1 Rovan
And I wonít do that again just saying the originals were the best
Now if the originals are not available and I really really want one yes I would think about it after I talked to my psychiatrist
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Offline Pappa Smurf

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Re: Clone or not to clone
« Reply #228 on: September 18, 2019, 05:14:36 PM »
Hey I sold you a cy  sold in the USofA  as Sikk  fukin good motors along with RCMK motors  Like I said you have double standards
Grumpy old carnt
1 x Rovan 5b and loving it
2 x gas monos
1 HPI 5b
1 MCD
2 Losi 5iveT
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Offline Pappa Smurf

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Re: Clone or not to clone
« Reply #229 on: September 20, 2019, 04:34:03 PM »
Well I believe they are or were  the  Losi dynamite motor
Grumpy old carnt
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2 x gas monos
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Offline puppeli

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Re: Clone or not to clone
« Reply #230 on: September 24, 2019, 04:07:46 PM »
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I bought 1 cz motor and won’t do that again
And I’ve bought two clones 1 King motors and 1 Rovan
And I won’t do that again just saying the originals were the best
Now if the originals are not available and I really really want one yes I would think about it after I talked to my psychiatrist

First the SCZ is improved BZM. It is from 28.5cc to 29cc with domed piston giving higher compression and power. The cooling has been also improved on SCZ. The internals and every aspect are better made in SCZ. SCZ has the same cylinder coating that made the BZM great and German bearings same as BZM. SCZ also came with alloy flywheel cage that is more durable for off road car. And price just over 1/3rd of the BZM and yet better.

Other Chinese engines Rovan for example the 32cc is great but the smaller stuff you will spot the porting is very different and you can't swap all the parts with Zenoah. Some really ruff and form Rovan's older stuff even that it is very cheap the quality is not there. But the new stuff far beats Zenoah quality. Still cheap held down with the old reputation of being rubbish and I guess partly it was justified but now you really need to ask yourself and do some research. The porting and finish are getting very good on Rovan and compared to the Zenoah aspects like knifing far exceeds the Zenoah now.

King Motor makes some the most powerful and best ported stock engines that are close copy of Zenoah. The 30.5cc REV equals US$500 ESP ported Zenoah in fraction of the price. Only thing needed is CA217 wrist bearing from Zenoah $5. The Chinese is rated same as the Dynamite under 2hp and won't hold. But for stock porting and knifing better than Rovan and way better than Zenoah.

30'N has one of the best crankcases with more closed up porting with more direct channels. It is not same as Zenoah. It also has better build and finish quality by far and better protection for foreign objects getting into the ignition and flywheel area. 29cc with as good cylinder head as Zenoah.

To me BZM is great but over rated and hugely over priced and Zenoah if you asked the question 5-7 years ago for sure it was the dogs balls but it is still the same as it was when it first came out. Others have past it long time ago.

It is same with the cars. Get over it. They are all made in China/Taiwan even the Losi. While the others are improving the materials, performance, electrics and build quality the Losi still comes only 6061 alloy and plastic in all the wrong places topped with box muffler.

Also note that all the stuffed and + cranks come from China also if you are build your engines.

Just having your opinion based on hate for China and the price being lot less even that it is better kind of makes you a bit uneducated.

Offline puppeli

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Re: Clone or not to clone
« Reply #231 on: September 24, 2019, 04:25:11 PM »
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I bought 1 cz motor and won’t do that again
And I’ve bought two clones 1 King motors and 1 Rovan
And I won’t do that again just saying the originals were the best
Now if the originals are not available and I really really want one yes I would think about it after I talked to my psychiatrist

Also about the SCZ most run them with wrong carb using 990 on them or 1107. That is not enough and it runs pretty sluggish. You need 1048 or Tillotson to unlock the engines performance. Reed always benefits from bigger carb.

Offline nitrocat

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Re: Clone or not to clone
« Reply #232 on: September 24, 2019, 06:44:50 PM »
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I bought 1 cz motor and won’t do that again
And I’ve bought two clones 1 King motors and 1 Rovan
And I won’t do that again just saying the originals were the best
Now if the originals are not available and I really really want one yes I would think about it after I talked to my psychiatrist

First the SCZ is improved BZM. It is from 28.5cc to 29cc with domed piston giving higher compression and power. The cooling has been also improved on SCZ. The internals and every aspect are better made in SCZ. SCZ has the same cylinder coating that made the BZM great and German bearings same as BZM. SCZ also came with alloy flywheel cage that is more durable for off road car. And price just over 1/3rd of the BZM and yet better.

Other Chinese engines Rovan for example the 32cc is great but the smaller stuff you will spot the porting is very different and you can't swap all the parts with Zenoah. Some really ruff and form Rovan's older stuff even that it is very cheap the quality is not there. But the new stuff far beats Zenoah quality. Still cheap held down with the old reputation of being rubbish and I guess partly it was justified but now you really need to ask yourself and do some research. The porting and finish are getting very good on Rovan and compared to the Zenoah aspects like knifing far exceeds the Zenoah now.

King Motor makes some the most powerful and best ported stock engines that are close copy of Zenoah. The 30.5cc REV equals US$500 ESP ported Zenoah in fraction of the price. Only thing needed is CA217 wrist bearing from Zenoah $5. The Chinese is rated same as the Dynamite under 2hp and won't hold. But for stock porting and knifing better than Rovan and way better than Zenoah.

30'N has one of the best crankcases with more closed up porting with more direct channels. It is not same as Zenoah. It also has better build and finish quality by far and better protection for foreign objects getting into the ignition and flywheel area. 29cc with as good cylinder head as Zenoah.

To me BZM is great but over rated and hugely over priced and Zenoah if you asked the question 5-7 years ago for sure it was the dogs balls but it is still the same as it was when it first came out. Others have past it long time ago.

It is same with the cars. Get over it. They are all made in China/Taiwan even the Losi. While the others are improving the materials, performance, electrics and build quality the Losi still comes only 6061 alloy and plastic in all the wrong places topped with box muffler.

Also note that all the stuffed and + cranks come from China also if you are build your engines.

Just having your opinion based on hate for China and the price being lot less even that it is better kind of makes you a bit uneducated.

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Offline nitrocat

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Re: Clone or not to clone
« Reply #233 on: September 24, 2019, 07:18:17 PM »
I donít hate clones
Itís just most have problems as you said needing this replaced or that small stuff
And for me I donít want to fiddle with the small stuff it breaks and you have to rebuild whatís left of the motor
So you buy a new motor and replace the cheap parts that broke on the first motor
Now you have paid for two motors but you have the problem fixed you hope
In most cases Iíve found that if you fix a week point you move the week point to a different part
Now this is my opinion from my experience
But I donít want to save money that way because you paid for two motors before you got the problem fixed if youíre very good or lucky
Iím not lucky and Iíve raced for years and most arenít that good to figure out what broke including me the first time or the second maybe the third
Thatís why I wonít buy clones
But yes your right all the stuff comes the same place
But thereís different grades of quality the price point is the low and the high is the name brand and itís not made with the best material available
So I save money by not being cheap
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Re: Clone or not to clone
« Reply #234 on: September 24, 2019, 07:44:45 PM »
My cz had a problem it didnít have the same cylinder coating as the BZM and it flaked off
And it ran extremely hot as you said the carb made a big difference
And the needle bearing failed on them if I remember right
So you would need 3 of them to fix all the problems if you were good and not lucky like me
But at that time no one offered a different cylinder coating except BZM
But in all fairness the BZM ran hot to if you tried to tune it like a piston port motor
It needs to be on the rich side because it has reeds it can run really rich and run really well that way
But back to the cz so I would need 3 at $429. Thatís the price of them then
So thatís $1290 before I fixed the problem by putting a BZM cylinder on the motor they were around $300. At the time
Or I could pay $975. For one BZM which I did and it still runs
It has had one piston break a week spot in the first run of them $45 for piston rings and bearing
From my math Iím saving my money
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Offline Pappa Smurf

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Re: Clone or not to clone
« Reply #235 on: September 26, 2019, 12:11:41 AM »
Nitro old man You are concentrating on motors In the car scene the clones are getting to be as good as the original and lets take the Losi 5t  What 4 or 5 times as many manufacturers means a larger market for the after market beef up parts. One clone is being sold with most of the known update parts Still cheaper than the original *rofl*
Grumpy old carnt
1 x Rovan 5b and loving it
2 x gas monos
1 HPI 5b
1 MCD
2 Losi 5iveT
Happy user of Micks Mods motors

5 assorted Aeros
Red Lion Rebel
Bunyip Basher
Leongatha Lout
2013 Nats with Sammy
LSCV No 10

Offline Pappa Smurf

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Re: Clone or not to clone
« Reply #236 on: September 26, 2019, 12:21:54 AM »
You would have a heart attack if you knew how much I have spent on my toys plus how much sponsorship I have given to 3 clubs I say the clones have helped build and expand our 1/5 sport/hobby thumbsup
Grumpy old carnt
1 x Rovan 5b and loving it
2 x gas monos
1 HPI 5b
1 MCD
2 Losi 5iveT
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Offline nitrocat

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Re: Clone or not to clone
« Reply #237 on: September 26, 2019, 07:22:22 PM »
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Nitro old man You are concentrating on motors In the car scene the clones are getting to be as good as the original and lets take the Losi 5t  What 4 or 5 times as many manufacturers means a larger market for the after market beef up parts. One clone is being sold with most of the known update parts Still cheaper than the original *rofl*
Iíll have to take you word for this because I havenít messed with my cars in a while
My driver is being a dad and Iím just about ready to get me a new driver heís 4 right now at 5 
Iím going to start him in 1/10
So itís getting close to racing again
In the meantime Iím racing this visitors can't see pics , please You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login or You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Iím trying to be serious about racing but every time Iím in the car I canít keep from grinning
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Offline Pappa Smurf

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Re: Clone or not to clone
« Reply #238 on: September 28, 2019, 12:09:12 PM »
I would grin too thumbsup
Grumpy old carnt
1 x Rovan 5b and loving it
2 x gas monos
1 HPI 5b
1 MCD
2 Losi 5iveT
Happy user of Micks Mods motors

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Red Lion Rebel
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Offline Pappa Smurf

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Re: Clone or not to clone
« Reply #239 on: October 04, 2019, 12:49:25 AM »
Nitro  Tell me one proven case  of bad clones
Grumpy old carnt
1 x Rovan 5b and loving it
2 x gas monos
1 HPI 5b
1 MCD
2 Losi 5iveT
Happy user of Micks Mods motors

5 assorted Aeros
Red Lion Rebel
Bunyip Basher
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Offline Pappa Smurf

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Re: Clone or not to clone
« Reply #240 on: October 04, 2019, 12:50:44 AM »
I can tell you  about bad HPI
Grumpy old carnt
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2 x gas monos
1 HPI 5b
1 MCD
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Offline nitrocat

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Clone or not to clone
« Reply #241 on: October 05, 2019, 01:37:16 AM »
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Nitro  Tell me one proven case  of bad clones
My cz the cylinder coating flaked off
And I got a Rovan buggy and the shocks were constantly leaking or coming apart
I had a king truck and couldnít keep the clutch shoes on it or the spring would break
But they may have gotten better
Iím looking at dirt oval racing 1/5 and im told the clone roller is the way to go by someone that I trust there option
« Last Edit: October 05, 2019, 02:12:25 AM by nitrocat »
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Re: Clone or not to clone
« Reply #242 on: October 09, 2019, 04:19:59 PM »
There will always be good and bad stories to tell e.g. Holden  V  Ford  IMO  ford is shit *rofl* thumbsup  Both HPI and Losi  choose to use clone motors
Grumpy old carnt
1 x Rovan 5b and loving it
2 x gas monos
1 HPI 5b
1 MCD
2 Losi 5iveT
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Offline corty351w

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Re: Clone or not to clone
« Reply #243 on: October 09, 2019, 08:39:17 PM »
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There will always be good and bad stories to tell e.g. Holden  V  Ford  IMO  ford is shit *rofl* thumbsup  Both HPI and Losi  choose to use clone motors

Not 100% true Richo, Losiís come standard with Zenoah engines these days....
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Offline Pappa Smurf

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Re: Clone or not to clone
« Reply #244 on: October 10, 2019, 08:32:57 AM »

Not 100% true Richo, Losiís come standard with Zenoah engines these days....
[/quote]

Pleased to hear that Shane. My 2  trucks were the earlier ones

Grumpy old carnt
1 x Rovan 5b and loving it
2 x gas monos
1 HPI 5b
1 MCD
2 Losi 5iveT
Happy user of Micks Mods motors

5 assorted Aeros
Red Lion Rebel
Bunyip Basher
Leongatha Lout
2013 Nats with Sammy
LSCV No 10